Category: Two Together

Danni & Brad / Two Together

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Danni Shrosbree and Bradley Shenton are busy people. Danni leading the privateer life of a professional gravel racer with all that that entails. And Brad never not on the road as business developer for Quoc cycling shoes.

So taking time out between return flights to Europe and back again, races, van trips and reconnaissance rides, they talk through what connects them as a couple, how home is both a moveable feast yet grounded in Girona, and why, in and amongst this whirlwind of life and living, they prioritise making memories together.

cyclespeak
You’re calling from Boulder, Colorado?

Danni
We’re staying with this lovely family that host us every year. They clearly like us because they allow us to return. And it’s my favourite place in the United States. Like a playground for all the different types of riding.

Brad
But this also offers up an interesting insight into Danni’s life and how she has to hustle for what riders on teams like Specialized might perhaps take for granted…

Danni
It’s always hard when you’re based over in Europe and racing in the States. Some of the races can be a month apart but it’s not always cost effective to fly back and forth. So this family stay came about through a friend of my Dad’s who very kindly hooked me up after Unbound last year. With the proviso that if I’m a pain in the ass, then I’ll have to leave straight away [laughs].

cyclespeak
I did wonder whether your wild card entry into the Lifetime Grand Prix—which means you’ll be racing Leadville—made staying at elevation in Boulder a tad more desirable?

Danni
Oh, for sure. But what’s funny is that, because of my visa, I have to go home for three weeks before heading back for Leadville. Which cost wise is absolutely crazy.


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cyclespeak
We’ve met before Brad; in real life, as they say. But I also feel I kind of know you Danni, from listening to the Bonk Babes podcast. So I was wondering—in this very connected, social media saturated world in which we live—whether this ever catches you unawares when you meet strangers for the first time and there’s this sense of knowingness?

Brad
It’s started happening to me a little more but it’s a regular thing with Danni.

Danni
And I’ve got this, “Hello mate, how’re you doing” personality.

Brad
I was at an event in New York a couple of weeks ago and someone came up to me saying, “Keep doing what you’re doing Swan Dog.” And I was like, what?

cyclespeak
Did you get the tattoo that Danni designed that references your nickname?

Brad
Not yet. But it will probably happen. We spend a lot of time together driving the van, so any number of stupid ideas get dreamed up on the road.

Danni
Which was why I was asking AI to help me design this combination of a swan and dog.


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cyclespeak
I’m guessing, Danni, that you lean into your name’s allusion to strawberry?

Danni
Not that my family name looks anything like strawberry but because no one can say it, Strawbs was my nickname from back when I was racing on the road and it just stuck. Which accounts for my bright pink helmet having strawberry decals all over it.

cyclespeak
Does that help in race feed-zones, Brad?

Brad
It’s so good. I’m so over all-white helmets.

cyclespeak
Before we look in more detail at the professional aspects of your lives, could we start with your story as a couple? How you first met and where it went from there.

Brad
There are a lot of funny nuances to our story. And it all started when I first joined Quoc and was getting to grips with understanding the cycling scene. At that time, Danni was just starting to race seriously…

Danni
On CAMS-Basso, a continental road team…

Brad
Who were cleaning up at the London races and I quickly realised that Danni was someone to keep my eyes on as her career progressed. And then at this race called Battle on the Beach over in Wales…


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Danni
I’d robbed my Dad’s camper van…

Brad
So I said hello and we started chatting. Only to discover—and here’s what’s so funny about our story—that I was coached on the athletics track by Danni’s aunty and uncle and grew up racing her cousins.

Danni
So weird…

Brad
And then when Danni did so well at the race, I offered her some shoes and out of this first meeting—bearing in mind that, at the time, we both had partners—Danni became a Quoc athlete and we became good friends.

cyclespeak
So what changed in the sense that you’re now a couple?

Brad
We both went through tough breakups, which bizarrely led us both to Girona, where we moved in together pretty quickly.

Danni
What Brad is missing out, is that we both agreed to race Badlands, in the couples category, before we were actually a couple. But then, in the run up to the race, we got together which meant we were racing as a couple in both senses of the word.

cyclespeak
And went on to win.

Danni
That race was a big test of our fledgling relationship [laughs].

Brad
We were both in Girona—riding together loads in the lead-up to Badlands—when things between us began to get a little more serious. And in all honesty, it was only a few people in Girona that knew we were together. But then we race, and win, Badlands and it gets picked up by BBC South Today and BBC Online and I’m getting all these messages saying, “Brad, who’s this girlfriend of yours?”


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cyclespeak
It struck me that you work with Quoc shoes, Brad. But Danni, you also worked in shoes—researching and forecasting trends—before becoming a full-time gravel professional. So was it perhaps fated, the two of you finding each other?

Danni
Footwear has always been a passion of mine. My Mum jokes that when I was a kid, I always wanted the latest sneakers. So I can talk about shoes all of the time.

Brad
And she does. I get all the feedback [laughs].

cyclespeak
Just out of interest, how many individual pairs of shoes do you each own?

Danni
I definitely have a shoe problem so I actually couldn’t even tell you.

Brad
Are we talking just Quoc shoes?

cyclespeak
No. All categories of shoes.

Brad
In that case, give up now! There’s too many and not enough numbers.

cyclespeak
Now that we’ve heard your story as a couple, I thought it would be interesting if you both took it in turns to describe what the other does professionally.

Danni
Brad’s in charge of business development at Quoc but it goes so much further than simply a job title. In all honesty, the brand would be lost without him. When you see him out in the field, it’s just incredible. Yes, the brand comprises the logo and the physical product but it’s so much more than that. And Brad was personally responsible for growing the UK market to where it is today, which is why he’s now out here in the States building on that growth. From retail outlets to race expos, everyone knows Brad and love all the crazy events he dreams up. He’s a proper hustler and my career genuinely wouldn’t be where it is today without Brad supporting my so-called privateer life. The gravel scene is becoming increasingly professionalised so you need a support crew in the feed zones and Brad has been there at every important race. The best Swan Dog I could wish for.


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Brad
That was unreal, thanks.

cyclespeak
Now it’s your turn, Brad.

Brad
So first and foremost, a lot of people know Danni as a pro gravel racer. But what people might not realise, is that Danni has a full-time job outside of that. Notwithstanding her training, no one gets to see how much work she does behind the scenes. A day doesn’t go by without any number of calls, a sponsor photo or video shoot, hosting a podcast, researching the guests on the podcast. The list just goes on and the number of times I wake up in the morning and Danni is explaining an idea she’s had for an Instagram reel. And I’m talking the very second you wake up. But what’s so great, is that Danni is amazing at juggling all these different facets of her career and being the best version of herself she can possibly be. There’s her advocacy for women in cycling, the coaching advice she offers, she’s a much valued brand ambassador and when it all comes together on race day and she gets a good result, I couldn’t be happier for her. And Danni’s a fantastic chef. Which is great because I don’t really cook…

Danni
No, no. He can. When we have a Quoc house, all of a sudden he rustles up the most incredible dish for all the athletes. But joking aside, we actually make a really good team.

cyclespeak
Possibly a slightly odd question but you both in a sense worked Unbound and I was wondering who found the experience the more challenging? 

Danni
I’ve done a stint in a feed zone so I know how hard that can be. And especially for Brad at Unbound: on his feet every day leading up to the race, working the expo, before helping talk through my strategy when he’s back to the house in the evening. And it’s a 200 mile course with three feed zones so that puts pressure on the support crews to drive between them across some pretty rough country. Throw in any unforeseen issues like me losing my tracker signal—which happened this year—and it can get crazy stressful.

Brad
It’s a different kind of hard. And in the grand scheme of things, we’re very fortunate that we get to do this for work. So whenever things ramp up a little, I remind myself that we’re blessed to be able to travel the world together and help each other to do our jobs. And there’s nothing better than being on the Quoc stand and showing the public our shoes. I just love it.


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cyclespeak
And race day?

Brad
There is a certain amount of stress. And especially when it’s your partner out there, putting everything on the line. Because I know exactly what’s gone into Danni’s preparation and what race day means. And when it doesn’t go according to plan, that hits hard. Which is why, waiting at the third and final feed zone and expecting to see her in the front group, when she wasn’t I had so many different scenarios going through my head. So I’ve got Danni’s mum texting me from over in England asking what’s going on. And I hadn’t even bothered to pick up any food and drinks from the van, thinking her race was over. Then I hear this shout, “Danni’s 15th!” so I’m scrambling to get her nutrition before she arrives.

cyclespeak
Just out of interest, how long was it—after Unbound had finished—that you were still finding pieces of grit, mud and sand about your person?

Danni
My bike is still not right. I’ve taken the headset apart twice now and I’m still finding grit. But quite unbelievably, the lady we were staying with in Emporia helped get my skin suit pretty much back to looking normal.

cyclespeak
Because at some points—I’m thinking of that tunnel underneath the railway tracks—you were going through some pretty deep water.

Danni
I stupidly tried to ride that, only to discover my handlebars were disappearing underwater. And then there was the lightning—which in the eventuality, the race handbook advises you to find shelter—but because Unbound is so exposed, where exactly do you go?

cyclespeak
I’m guessing your travel plans for the season have drastically changed now that you’ve qualified for the Lifetime Grand Prix through the wild card, Danni. More time in the States, less time in Europe. And you never seem to be in one place for very long, Brad. And though it’s one of my favourite questions to ask, it seems especially pertinent for you two. So what’s your concept of home?

Danni
Recently I had to write my address on something and I joked to Brad, “What do I put?” Because Girona is a special place for us and especially in the winter when it’s a little quieter. But both our families live in the south of England. So I guess it’s a little easier when we’re travelling together; in the sense that wherever we’re going is home.


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Brad
What’s interesting is that a lot of the professional cyclists in Girona live in spaces that are completely bare—they’re in and they’re out—whereas I feel we’ve created a proper sense of home in our flat that acts as a safe haven. But everyone is so welcoming over here in the US that it also starts to feel like home.

Danni
But you definitely get those moments when you don’t want to live out of a suitcase anymore. And that’s when I like to go back to Girona and spend some time on the beach.

cyclespeak
When you are both at home in your Girona apartment, who’s the tidiest?

Danni
I’d describe things as organised chaos. Especially when we first get back and there are bags everywhere. But then it will start to stress me out so I’ll tidy everything away and it will be pretty immaculate. And maybe I should add that Brad is terrible at putting his clothes away but possibly that’s just a male thing. I used to put them away for him but recently I’ve got a bit more stubborn. And I know what he’s going to say…that I’ve got so many clothes…

Brad
That there’s no space left for me to put things [laughs].

Danni
To be fair, he only ever wears his Quoc t-shirts so he doesn’t need any other clothes.

cyclespeak
Seeing each other in intense bursts and then being apart, possibly for weeks on end; does that feel completely natural or need some navigating?

Brad
We’re getting better—when we’re together—at understanding that we still need time to ourselves. But saying that, I reckon we’ve only had one proper date this year. So it’s probably fair to say some work is needed when we’re on the road and every weekend there’s an event or a race. Yes, we’re together, but is it the quality time a relationship needs?

cyclespeak
I don’t believe anyone lives a life devoid of at least some stresses and strains. But everything you do professionally, Danni, is done in the full glare of social media where individuals can comment and express their opinions, however ill-informed those might be. And Brad, your role is very customer facing and, as I’ve mentioned, you’re never in one place for long. So how do you each process the difficult times, what are your individual coping mechanisms, and how do you pull together as a couple to support each other?

Brad
We proper moan at each other [smiles].


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Danni
I used to try and give advice but really, he just needs to let it all out. And for me, I am on social media a lot but getting better at being real with my audience. So many people paint this perfect picture of the privateer life and you know what? Some days are shit. And I just got tired of pretending that everything was okay. Like earlier this year when I was training so hard—doing my best numbers—but not able to deliver in the races. And I just broke down and told Brad I couldn’t do this anymore. But everyone has a bad work day and you just need to sort your head out and the results will come.

Brad
We’ve got a lot better at speaking to each other when we’re struggling, as opposed to bottling up those feelings.

Danni
And I’m very close with my family. My mum’s like my best friend and always happy to listen. And then she’ll say, “You could always be back in London, sitting behind that laptop.”

cyclespeak
Talking about finding a balance, what does free time look like for you both? Is it ever possible to switch off completely?

Danni
That has to wait for the off season. But I’m a big advocate for grabbing a spa day, meeting up with friends, I even went horse riding last week. All those things make me the athlete I am. Because I would go insane if all I did was train and then sit around recovering. I need to keep things fun and in balance.

cyclespeak
Have you got an off switch, Brad?

Brad
Normally when I’ve got a beer in my hand.

Danni
A bit of a cliché but when I’m old and sitting in my rocking chair, I don’t want to look back on these times and not have a bunch of amazing memories of the things we saw and did. So maybe I should talk about Brad’s idea for my birthday present.

cyclespeak
This sounds intriguing…


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Danni
Well, I love Andorra and do a lot of altitude training there over the winter. But I’d never really seen it in the summer, my birthday is in July, and Brad told me he’d booked us a spa day. But then he tells me we’re going to bike pack there and back. So I’m doing this mental calculation—Girona to Andorra is roughly 200km with a fair bit of climbing—and decide I’m okay with that.

cyclespeak
So off you went.

Danni
Brad starts off super spritely but it was a seven hour day and we only just made the massage we had booked. And then on the return leg, there’s this awful headwind and way more climbing than Brad had anticipated. So he decides he’s done—bear in mind this was all his idea—and lets me pull him all the way back to Girona. And then—to top it all off—on the very last climb he pulls up next to me and starts to chat. So I’m, “Don’t you dare talk to me. It’s my birthday and you’ve put me on the front for five hours.”

Brad
One memory we won’t forget [laughs].

cyclespeak
As we’re talking about riding, any cycling pet peeves that you’re happy to share?

Danni
Sometimes I’ll join a group ride when I want to ride easy. But there’s always at least one person who feels the need to half wheel me or push the pace.

cyclespeak
So how do you respond?

Danni
I can be really stubborn and—if I’m going easy—I literally don’t give a fuck. If you want to ride with me and have a conversation, I’m back here.

cyclespeak
And you, Brad?

Brad
I actually have two. The first one—that I think we both share—is faffers. We both like to keep riding, we’re not fans of big stops, so that can drive us a little nuts. And the other one is very specific to my life in Girona and that’s the text message on the night before, or even the day of, saying, “Yo Brad, want to meet at 10:00am and go and ride for four hours?” And I’m like, no, I have a job. It’s a nice thought but I need at least a week’s notice in advance.

cyclespeak
I ummed and arred about asking this but who’s the fastest on a road bike up Els?

Brad
This time of year? Danni.

Danni
Brad is actually so strong. So sign him up for a two week boot-camp and then it would be pretty close.

Brad
Until it gets steep. You give me anything steep and I’m out the back [laughs].


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cyclespeak
I’m guessing your year, Brad, is pretty much mapped out with brand activations and trade expos to attend. For you, Danni, with the wild card entry, plans are a little more on the fly. So are you both planners—short and long term—in what your careers might look like in the future? Because media wise you’re both crushing it. You’re a super natural podcast host, Danni, and your pieces to camera, Brad, are highly entertaining and engaging. So does media stardom beckon when you decide to park the van and call a halt to racing?

Danni
I’m super passionate about my racing and want to enjoy that for as long as I can. But when the time comes to change direction, I’d love to stay in this industry whether that’s commentating or more podcasting.

Brad
You’d be so good.

Danni
I’d also love for us to do more on YouTube as a couple. And we’ve talked about having kids one day so lots to think about.

cyclespeak
How about you, Brad? How many years on the road is enough?

Brad
Sometimes it feels like I’m getting there.

cyclespeak
A fulfilling but tough life?

Brad
It has its moments but we’re just rolling with it. And Danni and I are always talking over future projects together.

Danni
I think our dream would be to have our own little hub somewhere and take all our learnings from these years on the road and create something truly unique.

cyclespeak
We’ve looked at the misconceptions of your professional lives so can we wind things up with the best aspects?

Danni
For me, it’s that we get to experience all these amazing places and events together. The vast majority of the memories that I’m creating in my racing career are shared by Brad.

Brad
And likewise, Danni’s seen all the growth of Quoc and can feel a sense of pride for being, one, part of that journey, and two, seeing all the hard work that goes into that success. Which I feel is really wicked. And you know what? We do live a pretty fun life. And that’s because we try not to take things too seriously.

Danni
We might not have the London city life and salaries…

Brad
But we’re rich in experience.

Thanks to Danni and Brad for embracing the Two Together theme so beautifully

Feature image by Dan Hutchinson / All other photography credited individually

Two together / Camp And Go Slow

Posted in Conversation, Two TogetherTagged , , , Leave a comment

I’m sitting on a call with Casey Clark and Sarah Lillegard from their home in Lassen County, California. After some initial technical difficulties, somewhat fittingly these partners in both life and work are sharing a single pair of wired ear buds. With individual small businesses balanced by their brand Camp And Go Slow—playfully self-described as a menagerie of bar tapes, bags, apparel and accessories—our conversation explores how they first found each other as a couple, both the risk and reward of being their own bosses, and how they wouldn’t have it any other way.

cyclespeak
As it’s your morning and my early evening, I was wondering whether there’s a routine your day usually follows?

Casey
We start out about the same but then things can get a little random.

cyclespeak
So you sit down together over breakfast?

Casey
We do. Because we both work from home, we’re pretty much here together each and every day.

Sarah
We have animals so there are morning chores. Letting the sheep out of the barn, feeding the dog and the cat.

cyclespeak
So what time does your day start?

Casey
We try not to set an alarm unless we really need to. But between the sun and our little dog, it’s usually somewhere between six and seven.

cyclespeak
Before we dig deeper into your work lives, can we start with your story as a couple?

Sarah
Casey and I had been in similar friend groups for quite a while. We were both involved with non-profits and art groups in Reno and we shared a makers’ space called Cuddleworks. Casey was making pottery, I had an artist studio, and at some point during this time we’d both separated from our then partners. Gradually we began to realise that our friendship had the potential to be a little bit more than simply friends and that we both shared similar ideas of where we wanted our lives to go. Which, as I remember it, led to a very adult realisation that yes, this is working out very well.

Casey
We’d been friends for quite a while before we started dating. Which is kind of weird because usually you start dating and then see if there’s a friendship.


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cyclespeak
And it all went from there?

Casey
Sharing those big spaces meant we were constantly collaborating on this or that—very aware of what each was doing—and then when we moved out here together, we pretty much continued working in much the same way.

cyclespeak
Was there ever a fear that you might spoil a friendship?

Sarah
For me, there was an odd certainty about where we were going relationship wise. It was check, check, check, all the boxes ticked. And to be honest, I was more worried that it wasn’t going to happen.

Casey
Knowing the way I can process things, maybe there was a part of me that recognised I should be afraid of spoiling our friendship. But in reality it never felt like a concern. It all felt very intuitive and an easy decision to make.

cyclespeak
Leaving aside Camp And Go Slow for a moment and focusing first on individual work roles, I read on your website, Casey, that you’re a bike mechanic (retired), potter (current), and cyclist (passable). So is being a potter a passion, a profession, or a little of both?

Casey
Obsession seems a little more apt of a term. But now it’s my profession, the reason we live where we live, and why I split my time between making pots and running Camp And Go Slow.

cyclespeak
So how did that play out?

Casey
I was working full-time as a bike mechanic, clocking out from the bike shop, and then starting work on my pottery—oftentimes until one or two in the morning—in my studio that was next door.

cyclespeak
And now?

Casey
It’s become an important and necessary part of our small business model. I still love it but I do have to manage my time pretty carefully, produce enough items, and make sure they’re priced accordingly. So you start off learning the craft part of it with all the intrinsic motivations that come with doing something you care deeply about. And then, if you decide to commodify it and turn what you’re making into a business, then that imposes certain restraints. There are a lot of pots I picture in my head that I know I can’t sell. But that’s the trade-off.


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cyclespeak
Same question for you Sarah. With the intriguing reference to you being a small flock sheep shearer with the emphasis on small.

Sarah
In the shearing industry there’s a distinction between large and small flock shearing. And most images that you see on television or online tend to feature a large flock. There’s a pen of sheep in a contained area and the pace is pretty frenetic.

cyclespeak
And small flock shearing?

Sarah
I mainly work with small-scale ranchers or people that have hobby flocks. There’s a lot more focus on customer service which means I spend a lot of my time interacting with the flock owner. It’s not unusual for these sheep to have names, specific personality traits, and origin stories that the owner is keen to share with me. Whereas in large flock shearing they have to make numbers so they’re moving through thousands of sheep.

cyclespeak
How did this job find you? Or did you find it?

Casey
How long have we got? [laughs]

Sarah
I took a wool spinning class and instead of learning to knit with the yarn I was making, I went the other way. Partly because sheep are so fascinating—I’ve read up on the cultural history of sheep and love talking breeds with the flock owners—and because it’s a job with a rural setting.

cyclespeak
Which brings us nicely to your shared business Camp And Go Slow. Which I believe started almost as a joke with a die-cut sticker?

Casey
It was a bike shop gag. And there were only twelve in the first batch of stickers. Literally cut out of some scrap vinyl from a trash can. But I gave them out to my friends and they all thought it was funny and then people started asking for more. Which was when I actually paid $4 to buy some vinyl.

cyclespeak
From little acorns, as they say. And now that it’s grown to be a business in its own right, how do you individually divide up the tasks that help keep Camp And Go Slow on the road?

Casey
One aspect of our romantic breakfast-together lifestyle is basically eating eggs whilst having a daily employee meeting. The initial product development—which is a fancy way to say it—is mostly derived from my bike-nerd brain and then we bounce these ideas back and forth across the table. And because I’ve worked in bike shops pretty much since I was out of high school, I have a lot of friends with small businesses producing various bike-related products and that encourages me to consider what they’re good at, how we can collaborate, and how that might be mutually beneficial.


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cyclespeak
And your role in the business, Sarah?

Sarah
Bike culture isn’t ingrained in my life. So Casey is the one with product ideas and the witty social media posts. But my background in exhibit curation and graphic design helps when we take a concept through to ideation. I look after all the day-to-day digital file components of each individual design and spend a lot of time considering colour palettes.

cyclespeak
You mention colour and I’ve noticed that much of your product range appears to take stylistic cues from your local fauna and flora and an earthy colour palette. And I was wondering if Camp And Go Slow is intrinsically rooted in your present locality or whether it’s actually the two of you and could therefore adapt to wherever you decide to lay your hat?

Sarah
I have strong feelings about this. And particularly the colour influence of our work which I would agree is rooted in the Great Basin where we live. The palette is pretty subtle, it rewards a long look, it’s very seasonal. And I feel at a certain point that kind of infiltrates into who we are and what we make.

cyclespeak
And you, Casey?

Casey
It’s a good question but not one that I’ve ever thought about because I’ve never considered the possibility of living anywhere else.

cyclespeak
As simple as that.

Casey
If you look at how we dress and the way our house looks, it’s pretty obvious that the language of this colour palette is native to us. And that’s not to say we don’t like other languages but we’re not fluent in them.

cyclespeak
I don’t think anyone lives a life devoid of pressure and the occasional calamity. So how do you each respond to challenging times and, as a couple, support each other?

Casey
That’s a big one.

Sarah
I feel like a good chunk of our relationship has been navigating traumatic and stressful situations. When we moved out here, it felt like one natural disaster after another.

Casey
We’ve had some doozies with wild fires and a mud slide that took out our water supply.

Sarah
I feel like we’re constantly learning better ways of managing. Because by nature I tend to bottle things up and get stressed. But Casey can read that right away; obviously I’m far from subtle…

Casey
It’s a bottle but it’s a clear bottle.


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Sarah
So if I’m stressed, Casey will encourage me to spend time in the garden, go for a run, take the dog for a walk. In much the same way as I’ll suggest Casey gets out on his bike or spends some time with friends.

Casey
There are the day-to-day pressures of being small business owners and juggling the gazillion responsibilities that come with that. And we understand that when we do take some time away, whatever project we’re working on will be right here on the kitchen table waiting for when we get back. Which means we work a lot but we understand that trade-off and with it you get a lot of agency.

cyclespeak
And when it’s not an everyday problem but something more potentially catastrophic?

Casey
It’s usually a natural disaster or a weather related problem that just throws everything into chaos. And when these things happen, you don’t go for a bike ride and feel better. But you gradually evolve a response mechanism after going through the wringer a few times. We both know what we’re good at, so we see what needs to be done without having to hash out who’s doing what.

Sarah
During the wildfire—when it was coming straight at our property—my priority was to make sure the animals were safe. And when that moment arrived, I didn’t say, “Casey, I love you, be safe” because I knew he understood how to handle the stress of that situation. But then later, when things were more under control, I did wonder whether it was odd that I didn’t vocalise my concern and affection. But I trusted Casey implicitly in the knowledge that he knew what to do.

cyclespeak
You mention communication and your breakfast-time talks. And I was wondering whether there’s a debrief at the end of each day? Or is everything a little blurred because you live where you work and work where you live?

Casey
The second one [laughs]. We don’t really have boundaries between working and living. It all happens simultaneously.

cyclespeak
Would you like to have boundaries?

Casey
Not boundaries as such. But it might be nice to feel less pressure to be productive and work so often.


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cyclespeak
How does this look in real life?

Casey
It’s rare that I go for a bike ride and don’t stop to take photos for the Instagram feed. It’s rare that I go on a bike ride not thinking about the never-ending list of projects that I’ve got on the go.

cyclespeak
So you’re always on?

Casey
Pretty much but it sounds a lot worse than it actually is. I like being tuned into it. I’ve worked really hard so I can be tuned into it. And it’s a lot more rewarding than spending eight hours a day working towards someone else’s goals.

cyclespeak
But that’s the reality for the vast majority of people. They do a job that’s okay but not something they love. To get a monthly pay check that they spend on their hobbies and interests. Whereas you and Sarah have flipped that and though you might put in more hours, your passions guide what you do for a living.

Casey
It’s definitely less financially secure and the boundaries are blurred. But we’ve both tried to do it the other way and that’s just not how we’re wired.

cyclespeak
I understand the challenges of running a small business—or businesses in your case—and I imagine you put in way more hours than the standard nine to five but can I say that you both look very well on the life decisions you’ve made?

Casey
Thank you [smiles]. And I guess that’s just how we roll. There’s this need to be neck deep in whatever project or business idea we’ve got going on. Which all comes with more risk but a lot more reward when you nail it.

cyclespeak
Does that all resonate, Sarah?

Sarah
I feel like we’re constantly trying to sort out how to communicate what needs to happen and when. And then you add in all the tasks relating to the upkeep of this property. Which means that certain times of the year can be a little intense with to-do lists and calendar notes.

cyclespeak
Those pinch points of life and living?

Sarah
Sometimes in the spring it can feel especially overwhelming when the shearing season adds to everything else we’ve got going on—a lot of moving parts—which is usually when we discuss how it would look if we scaled back one of the businesses. We’ve got this three-legged stool with Casey’s pottery, my sheep shearing, and Camp And Go Slow. Which in reality means that no one business gets one hundred percent of our attention and time. So we do have these what if conversations but we’ve never quite found an answer.


Click an image to open gallery

cyclespeak
Is that because you prefer things to happen organically?

Casey
I don’t know whether making plans or favouring organic growth are mutually exclusive. We’re both very methodical but there are always those moments when things don’t quite go according to plan. Which, if you think about it, is most of the time. And it’s not like we’re typing out little manifestos but we have a framework and then shuffle things around as needs must.

cyclespeak
And long term planning?

Sarah
I think that’s where the organic comes in. There isn’t a ten-year master plan pinned up on the wall because every year there’s some big hick-up. But for me, not having a rigid sense of what the future holds makes the bumps in the road a little less stressful.

Casey
It’s like being on a bike tour. You have a general sense of the direction and the route you’ll be following but there’s always something that throws a spanner in the works. So the flexibility to improvise is a real skill and a lot of what I learned through bike touring applies really well to our businesses.

cyclespeak
Pulling all these strands together and in whatever terms you choose Sarah, what do you see and feel when you look at Casey?

Sarah
There are so many things that constantly amaze and impress. His mind works in a way that is so different from my own. I swear he wakes up, opens his eyes, and tells a joke. Whereas I have to save it up for a year, working it over in my head. And there’s this duality with Casey that, being his partner, I get to see. On the one hand a toughness and sense of accountability that can come across as a little gruff or grumpy. But wrapped up and around that is so much kindness and consideration. Smart, savvy and handsome. Rugged yet sensitive.

cyclespeak
The same question for you, Casey.

Casey
Sarah has qualities that I might have little bits of, but I wish were bigger. In Sarah they’re inflated a thousand times. She’s such a thoughtful and caring individual—it’s just innate—the bedrock of her whole being. Which makes it so easy for me to trust her and that’s coming from someone with an autonomy complex. And Sarah is the only person in my life that I know will do this or that way better than I ever could. Which is a charming thing to have in a business partner but especially in a life partner. It just feels so nice to be seen and taken care of. And I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed that so much as I do now. A little halo of light around my gruff exterior and this might sound a little clichéd but I like myself more when I’m around her.


Click an image to open gallery

cyclespeak
And the best aspects of your life together?

Casey
My favourite thing is just being in it with Sarah. Even the challenging parts—perhaps especially the challenging parts—when instinctively we draw closer to each other. There’s this profound sense of reward that, together, we’ve got through whatever has been thrown at us. It’s like when they say something’s greater than the sum of its parts. We both place a value on the agency of working for ourselves and how we get to decide when and where to focus our time and energy.

Sarah
I really appreciate how we can create ethical boundaries on what we make and how we do it; something I always struggled with when I was working for other businesses. And what this looks like—when we’re developing products for Camp And Go Slow—is a lot of time considering how we’re treating the other makers we’re working with, what the customer experience will look like, and whether there’s a longevity to whatever we’re creating. It’s so exciting to finally touch and feel a product that started out as a discussion over the breakfast table.

Casey
Because our businesses are really small, we don’t have marketing executives and account managers pushing us in this or that direction. If I want to spend an extra couple of minutes on every coffee mug that I make, doing some fussy little detail that most people won’t even notice, I can just do it. We both place a lot of importance in that sense of freedom. And because we’re really into the details of what we do, that’s where we get to do our most rewarding work. And there’s nobody here to stop us [smiles].

Feature image and Great Basin Pottery photography with kind permission of John Watson and The Radavist

Grateful thanks to Casey and Sarah of Camp And Go Slow for their conversational candour

Two Together / Van life

Posted in Conversation, Two TogetherTagged , , , 1 Comment

Completing the purchase of the RV they would subsequently name Oatmeal, Cayla Green and Alex Roszko took their first tentative steps into van life. And now, after a number of extended trips combining both work and leisure, they sat down together to talk over their first year of ownership: both the rewards, and realities, of living life on the road.

cyclespeak
I know Alex from a previous story, Cayla, but it’s the first time we’ve met. So can I ask what keeps you busy when you’re not riding bikes?

Cayla
I’m a software engineer; working pretty much remotely since the pandemic. I guess I’m of that generation that never got the full 9-5 experience—for better or worse—and when I’m not working or hanging out with my little dog Navy Bean, I like to read and cook.

cyclespeak
I assume there’s also an element of homeworking with your career as a photographer, Alex? So are you both super disciplined or prone to getting distracted?

Alex
Given the nature of my work—that it’s freelance—if I have a deadline, then I will meet it. But if I don’t have anything to work on, I’ll just putz around, trying to talk to Cayla when it’s clear she’s focused on her own work project. So I think we work well together but maybe Cayla has a different take on things?

Cayla
Maybe I do [laughs]. And Alex is quite correct in that I focus very intensely when I’m coding. Almost oblivious to what’s going on around me.

cyclespeak
Before we get onto vans and van life, I feel it would be remiss of me not ask about your story as a couple?

Alex
We first met during the pandemic on some of the same rides. Nothing happened because we were both in relationships but a couple of years later, when I rolled up to the start line at Rule of Three—a race in Arkansas—who should I see but Cayla and her partner. But what I didn’t know, was that they’d actually ended their relationship but still wanted to ride the event together as friends. Over the course of the race I mentioned that I’d recently split up from my partner and I guess that was kind of it.

Cayla
It was such a funny reveal that we’d both gone through something so similar within a couple of months of each other.

cyclespeak
I believe it was actually on your first date that the notion of van ownership was first mentioned?

Alex
That was a few weeks after Rule of Three. We met up for coffee and talked about our respective breakups and what we were both looking for in the future. And as we both ticked off our mental checklists of more travel, more riding, more flexibility, it soon became apparent that we shared so much common ground in terms of the path we wanted to take. Which was both a kind of shock but also super exciting.

Cayla
One of us would reveal something, only to have the other say, “You’re kidding. Because that’s how I feel too.” So it was all kind of neat. And a little surprising. To the point of, “Did you read my journal?”

cyclespeak
Obviously stars were aligning.

Alex
I guess you could say so.

cyclespeak
So what function was your van meant to serve?

Alex
I’m going to go back a little to answer that. To my uncle who has built out vans for years. I can remember from my mid-teens all his different rigs. Whether that was a Volkswagen van or an old Chevy Blazer, they all represented freedom and easy access to the outdoors. So my thinking was the van would provide accommodation when I travel to a race, could double up as a mobile studio, and a space to unwind after long days spent shooting.

cyclespeak
And for you, Cayla?

Cayla
My parents, before I arrived, had an amazing time exploring the United States in a Winnebago. And I’ve always been a somewhat transient person; only ever living in the same place for 15 months at a time. So you combine my own desire to travel with the sense of claustrophobia during the pandemic, and my need for freedom became even more urgent.

cyclespeak
Can you describe the purchase process? Was it easy to navigate and did you have a shopping list of certain features?

Cayla
I do feel that one of the smartest things we did was rent a van before we started our own search in earnest. And when I say van, I’m talking about one of the more bare bones varieties. No toilet or indoor shower, 2WD, and a relatively small bed with very little storage. More as an exercise in understanding what we could—or couldn’t—live without. There’s some upfront cost—renting something online—but it was so worth it in terms of helping us figure out what really mattered.

cyclespeak
And how did that experiment work out?

Cayla
We drove down to where I was born in Corpus Christi, Texas, to visit family and spend some time with friends. That first night, we camped out on the beach and in the morning discovered we were stuck. So, straight away, we knew that 4WD is pretty much a necessity. And then, taking a shower outside in the wind, the shower curtain kept sticking to Alex’s skin so that was another lesson learnt.

Alex
Researching different van types, I had my own ideas of what I was looking for. Like I really wasn’t that fussed over an indoor shower but you soon start to reconsider when there’s a cold, wet shower curtain wrapped around you. I was freezing, it was miserable, and not something I wanted to experience on a regular basis. And it probably didn’t help that I was a little spoilt with what I’d been used to with my uncle’s builds.

Cayla
There were times when I was beginning to wonder whether we’d ever find one [laughs].

Alex
The search was all encompassing—Craigslist and eBay and all the individual builders—until we finally saw one that just seemed to tick all the boxes. We immediately called the vendor and booked a flight.

cyclespeak
How far are we talking about?

Alex
We flew into Atlanta, bought the van the next day, and then drove back to Austin the day after that.

cyclespeak
From the photos you posted, it looked in superb condition.

Alex
The van is a 2022 and the build was 2023. Owned by a wonderful guy called Bill who’d been planning a US tour with his wife but their circumstances had changed.

Cayla
He really wanted to meet us in person before completing the sale. And you hear stories about older people with a twinkle in their eye? I tried to negotiate the price with him but he just smiled and told me he appreciated the fact that I’d at least tried [laughs].

cyclespeak
Aside from buying a house, this must rank as one of the biggest purchases you’re ever likely to make?

Alex
We split it 50:50—something both of us had been saving for—so the van is co-owned with a contract. We’re not married, so it’s a case of two individuals owning one, very large piece of equipment.

Cayla
We hadn’t even reached the 12-month anniversary of our first date when we drove the van home.

Alex
I took inspiration—if that’s the right word—from the same uncle with all the van builds. He takes the view that if you want to do something—and can afford whatever you have planned— then you should do it as soon as you can. Because that opportunity or freedom to act might not arise anytime soon and what’s the harm in taking a risk and messing up? It’s just a thing and you can always sell it if circumstances change. But experiences and memories can last a lifetime.

cyclespeak
So how was that first trip and was there a learning curve?

Cayla
Our first big trip was to Sea Otter. And yes, there was definitely a learning curve [laughs]. Everything from finding the correct kind of fuel—not every gas station in the States has diesel—and very quickly discovering that cell service across continental North America can be patchy at best. So there were some panicky moments pulling into supermarket parking lots so I could connect to the Starbucks WiFi and finish a project.

cyclespeak
I guess remote working as a software engineer necessitates a certain level of connectivity. But aside from that, any other lessons learnt?

Cayla
Alex was very set on finding level ground—every time we parked up—but as soon as you start cooking an omelette in a pan and one half is twice the thickness of the other, these details very quickly become apparent. Sleeping too—on a slope—can be tricky when you wake up with your feet feeling super weird. So it wasn’t long before I came around to his way of thinking [smiles].

Alex
On that first big trip, we took ten days to travel to Monterey from Austin. You could make that same journey in three long days but our plan was to drive for only four hours a day, do some work and then go on a ride. But that requires you to move every day, which in turn presents you with a number of key decisions. Where are you driving, where are you stopping, where are you riding? Can you re-supply with groceries along the way, do you have a work call and will you have WiFi? Every day—over a ten-day trip—a brand new logistical operation. And, for me personally, that time at Sea Otter was the most intense work week I’ve ever experienced. Eleven shoots in six days with seven different brands. So the closer we got, the more my stress levels increased. And that meant my ability to make practical decisions was also impaired.

cyclespeak
So did you figure out a solution?

Cayla
Spontaneity is great when you’re not on the clock. But sometimes it’s just better to beeline there, set up camp and then, when you’ve finished up with work commitments, take your time and a circuitous route back home again.

Alex
And we now have Starlink which is an absolute game changer. Especially when we’re on the move and can both still work.

cyclespeak
You’re connected!

Cayla
We are indeed [laughs].

cyclespeak
So moving forward from these first experiences of travelling, what are the realities of van ownership?

Cayla
I’ve found that a little handheld vacuum cleaner really helps in keeping the van clean. My dog is pretty small but the amount of hair that she sheds is unbelievable. And then there’s understanding the value of a gallon of bleach. When you’re living—and showering—in a little box with very few windows, there’s a lot of humidity and it’s a constant effort to stop everything from going mouldy.

Alex
Even to the extent of adding a cap of bleach into our 25 gallon water tank to prevent it from going off. We’ve looked it up. We’re not crazy!

cyclespeak
That’s good to know [laughs].

Alex
My uncle calls this type of vehicle a slow car, fast house. And it’s true. You’re driving around and things rattle and bang. You have to do a flight check before setting off to make sure everything is closed on the outside and secure on the inside.

cyclespeak
And your sleeping arrangements?

Cayla
I sleep way better than I normally do. A feeling like I’m in my own little cave…

cyclespeak
Cocooned?

Cayla
Yes! Just like that. And my little dog also seems very settled because I think she can see everyone is right there.

Alex
We do play white noise because, depending on where you set up camp, there can be outside sounds that might keep you awake.

Cayla
And making the bed isn’t particularly easy in such a confined space [laughs].

cyclespeak
So what have been the biggest positives?

Alex
We get to travel together—next to each other—whilst still being able to work. And then, when we pull up at our next stop, we can go and ride our bikes. Or do yoga, or make dinner, or watch a movie. We get to spend quality time all over the place.

Cayla
What I love is the ability to just pull over at the historical markers that you see on the roads and highways. Not something you can do when taking a flight. These little blips of past events or locations that have a description. But that’s the nature of travelling by van. The way it encourages you to slow down and take things in.

Alex
We definitely drive slower and we’re also not afraid of stopping. If we spot a gravel road heading off from the highway, we can pull over, make some lunch and then go for a ride. It’s really cool to be free to do all those little things.

cyclespeak
Would you say there’s an emotional connection between yourselves and your van? Maybe how it feels to be behind the wheel or waking up to whatever view you’ve chosen?

Alex [looking towards Cayla]
Your face is saying something right now…

Cayla
I’m not sure if this answers your question but on one of our trips I went for a run where there wasn’t any cell service. I’d gone further than I would normally go and wasn’t one hundred percent sure where the van was parked. But when I crested the top of this little mountain, I could just about spy the van in the distance and had such a feeling of excitement that there was our home, coupled with this certain sense of safety. All I then had to figure out was how to get to it [laughs].

Alex
I agree. When I’m working and roll up after a shoot, I grab the handle and open the door and immediately start the process of unwinding after a busy day. On the flip side, when I leave the van for whatever reason, it’s hard to resist looking back and thinking nice. So there’s definitely some pride and a sense of joy that comes with van ownership.

cyclespeak
Any future van plans or is it just more of the same?

Alex
Not really any build plans…

Cayla
One little one…

Alex
The composting toilet?

Cayla
We’ve been looking into a different toilet purchase which is kind of exciting. And then we also…

cyclespeak
Can I just stop you there and rewind to the composting toilet? That sounds super interesting.

Cayla
Our current toilet—and I argued for this one so I take full responsibility—is like a space blanket inside a box. After you make a deposit, you push this button and it twists off and seals itself ready to be used again. Basically, a dry-flush toilet.

cyclespeak
I’ve seen something similar for disposing of dirty nappies. Or diapers as you’d call them.

Cayla
Exactly. And the problem is, that it does generate a lot of waste. It only has 17 or so flushes before the bag needs to be replaced and then there’s the question of what to do with the full bag?

cyclespeak
So a composting toilet?

Alex
It’s basically a chamber of peat moss together with a specific type of mulch. There’s a series of mechanical agitators that—once you’ve deposited your solid waste—you crank five times and that mixes everything up. There’s no smell and when the chamber is full, it honestly looks like common or garden dirt. It’s hard to believe there’s any human waste contained with the mixture.

cyclespeak
Living and travelling in what is a relatively small space, just out of curiosity has owning a van brought you closer together as a couple? 

Alex
It’s given me the confidence to make large, complicated decisions with Cayla. Where I’m deficient, she excels and maybe…

Cayla
Vice versa.

Alex
I recognise her strengths in both the purchase process but also as an incredible planner in our subsequent trips. And then there’s this humbling awareness of how dirty I can be. I really wasn’t aware that I constantly drop crumbs whenever I eat. Or that I forget to take my shoes off when I climb into the van. So knowing that I have all these quirks and then spending time together living in such a small, confined space, I appreciate Cayla’s understanding and patience all the more.

Cayla
It’s just being aware of the silly, little things that are meaningful to each other. One of the most important things for Alex—that I didn’t initially understand—was having the best parking spot. Because I don’t particularly care. I’m happy sleeping next to a Walmart. Whereas Alex will decide to take this road that he’s spotted on Google Earth that will require us to select 4WD and might even have us getting out to push. But in the morning, when you wake up, it’s totally amazing!! So I’ve grown to understand that what might not be important to me is very important to Alex and I also end up reaping the benefits.

Alex
Which is why I mentioned how dirty I can be. Not because Cayla nags me about it but I notice how much time she spends vacuuming and that makes me want to try harder. We share this ten foot square space and it’s super important that we’re on the same page. And when people kindly say how much they like my van, I always stop them and point out that it’s ours.

All photography with kind permission of Alex and Cayla

Two Together / Oniria Café

Posted in Conversation, Two TogetherTagged , , , Leave a comment

cyclespeak
More or less?

Jannik and Nora [simultaneously]
Less.

cyclespeak
Does that apply to everything?

Nora
Not love [laughs].

A stone’s throw from Girona’s Plaça de la lndependència, look through the glass doors to the warmly lit interior of Oniria Café and you will recognise all the usual paraphernalia of a city centre coffee shop: countertop, espresso machine, bagged beans on display. On entering, what next becomes immediately evident is the warm welcome served up by co-owners Nora Salvat and Jannik Schäfer with every cup of specialty coffee—a passionate approach to their profession fuelled by indomitable energy and a truly empathetic nature.

In an extended and candid conversation, Nora and Jannik offer up a glimpse into their life together—discussing the origins of Oniria, how they both seek to balance busy lives and why, ultimately, theirs is a love story rooted in a very special locale.

cyclespeak
How was your day?

Jannik
Good. The usual ups and downs.

[Nora laughing]

cyclespeak
Can we start by talking about your individual backgrounds and how they led to Oniria?

Nora
Me?

Jannik
You first [laughs].

Nora
Since I was very young, I’ve always seen myself as an artist. But I could never stick to just that one discipline so I decided to broaden my horizons and visit Australia when I was 19—the farthest place I could go without heading back home. And while I was there, I worked in hospitality and that was the first time I really understood what a barista was and what specialty coffee meant.

cyclespeak
That obviously had an impact?

Nora
It was like a mental click. And when I returned home to Girona, I started working at Espresso Mafia.

cyclespeak
Beginning your own coffee journey?

Nora
At that time, the Espresso Mafia concept was really difficult for some Catalan people to understand—they thought it was very expensive. But I’ve always liked things that are new and different and I loved working there. I practised my latte art – doing it nice – and I also valued the everyday contact I had with our customers.

cyclespeak
And Jannik?

Jannik
I’ll do the short version.

[Nora laughs]

Jannik
I’ve been interested in coffee for seven and a half years now. Alongside my normal work, I helped a friend build his own shop and did a few coffee events. 


cyclespeak
Just out of curiosity, what was your normal work?

Jannik
That’s an interesting question.

[Nora laughs]

Jannik
After studying international business and enterprise at university, I would say I’ve specialised in entrepreneurship. So when people ask how I ended up making coffee in Girona, I explain that the city is very international and our shop is a business [smiles].

cyclespeak
You’re partners in both life and work, so can I ask how you met? Those first impressions that led to your story as a couple?

Nora
While I was still working at Espresso Mafia, this new shop – Eat, Sleep, Cycle – was having an opening party. I was having fun and then went outside to get some air and saw this man. He was looking very nice and elegant—different from your average Catalan guy. And because I’m very impulsive, I just walked up to him and started talking. Straight away, I saw something in him that I really liked but at the end of the evening we just went our separate ways.

cyclespeak
That’s a nice memory.

Nora
He stayed here for three months – taking some time off from Germany – and I kept seeing him at Espresso Mafia. He wasn’t available at that particular moment but I knew we had a connection. It just wasn’t the right time.

cyclespeak
So what happened to change that?

Nora
The day we spoke the most was the day he returned to Germany. He came back a year later but over all that time I had him in my mind. And the first person he saw when he did come back was me. It was a very beautiful moment and this time he was available. And we smiled because we both knew something might happen.

cyclespeak
Jannik, that was quite an impression you made?

Jannik
It does sound that way [laughs].


cyclespeak
So what’s your take on first seeing Nora?

Jannik
I’d temporarily left behind life in Germany and just fell in love with Girona’s energy, culture and surroundings. But because this was a contemplative time for myself, I kept changing my mind whether I should attend the opening party at Eat, Sleep, Cycle. In the end I didn’t stay long but I stayed long enough [smiles].

cyclespeak
That’s a nice way of putting it.

Jannik
It was a difficult time for me. I was struggling with depression so wasn’t really available for friends – new or old – or even for myself. But Girona proved the catalyst for the internal development I needed and when I returned a year later, I was walking over the stone bridge in the centre of town when I bumped into Nora.

cyclespeak
You were fated to meet again [smiles].

Nora
Yes, just like that.

cyclespeak
You both grew up in quite different cultures and I was wondering whether, at that time, your friends and family were surprised at your mutual attraction?

Jannik
I was recently talking about this to my family and it turns out they weren’t surprised at all. They knew I wouldn’t make a life for myself in Germany.

cyclespeak
In England we say a square peg in a round hole. And just because you grow up with certain cultural values doesn’t necessarily mean you have a sense of belonging. And it can take a geographical or emotional removal to find this.

Jannik
I feel more connected to Girona than where I grew up. Like I belong.

Nora
I hope [laughs].


cyclespeak
So what language do you speak at home?

Nora
Spanish.

Jannik
The first week was English but it just didn’t feel like the right connection.

cyclespeak
You appear to have moved towards Nora in terms of locality, culture, language?

Jannik
We did both move to Germany to see how it felt living there. But we knew pretty quickly that it wasn’t going to work.

Nora
It was really difficult living in Germany. So I’m happy that Jannik enjoys living in Girona—that he feels free to be his true self.

cyclespeak
And now you have Oniria but I’ve been struggling to find out what it means. I even tried Google Translate but with no luck. So can you tell me the story?

Jannik
I have a quick description before Nora explains it better than me.

[Nora laughs]

Jannik
It comes from the word oneiric which I interpret as the world behind closed eyes. That moment between a waking and dreaming state.

Nora
It represents what I like to paint—the surrealist landscapes that I portray. A world of dreams but also a place where anything is possible. It might not make sense – it doesn’t have to reflect real life – but it can offer a different way of living and being.

cyclespeak
Were these concepts and visions always going to be rooted in a coffee shop?

Nora
We have a lot of ideas – a lot of dreams – and we believe that Oniria is just the beginning. The first thing we built together.


cyclespeak
From the outside looking in, I find it difficult to imagine you ever standing still. That there’s a constant questioning and reimagining of the journey you’re both on.

Nora
Thinking about the future, we might have certain goals but then you meet someone, share ideas, and that can alter your pathway.

cyclespeak
I’m guessing you had to weather some challenges in launching your business?

Jannik
This wasn’t our first location—we started just around the corner in a friend’s shop so we didn’t have rent to pay and could breathe freely and see where this path would take us.

cyclespeak
But you had to contend with a worldwide pandemic?

Jannik
We quickly realised that it was more of an opportunity than a risk. We couldn’t leave the city because of the restrictions but it allowed us to really connect with the people in our immediate neighbourhood. But there are still challenges – the daily routine of running a business – which is why we don’t work on Sunday and Mondays. You need space for yourself.

Nora
We started very small and grew the business organically. And then our current location became empty and we managed to come to an arrangement. Our next step.

cyclespeak
Now that you’re established, can you talk about your customers and the connections you’ve made?

Jannik
We’re both very interested in the psychological aspects of our relationships with our customers. And we’re not so much serving coffee as openness—Oniria being 25 square metres of conversation. That’s naturally what happens here. And because I ask questions and have a talent for remembering names…

[Nora laughs and nods]

…90% of the people that visit frequently, I know something about them. It’s what drives me—that we can provide a space that is free from any kind of judgement. You can be who you are and feel at home. As if Oniria is an extension of our living room.

cyclespeak
And for you, Nora?

Nora
What I’ve discovered is that listening to what people have to say is a very powerful thing. Because people don’t always have that in their lives or maybe they find it difficult to open up emotionally. And Oniria is a space where these things become possibilities.


cyclespeak
Do you think the same environment, the same impact, would be possible if Oniria was a bigger space?

Nora
It would be a lot more difficult. 

Jannik
I think we could but only for limited hours. We both have finite energies and if we had a bigger shop and more customers, something would have to give. It needs to be a slow rather than fast environment.

Nora
And the next step might not be a coffee shop. Maybe something different.

cyclespeak
Sometimes things start small and have that magic ingredient. And that can be lost when you scale it?

Nora
It’s a decision that most businesses face at some point. When you have to choose between making more money or keeping to your original vision. But maybe it’s possible to do both?

Jannik
It’s about finding a sense of equilibrium and questioning whether you want more?

cyclespeak
I can see you’ve got some conversations ahead.

Jannik
Whatever happens, this shop will stay. The size and energy is just too good.

cyclespeak
You mentioned painting, Nora. Is this aspect of your life intertwined with Oniria? Or is it something you purposely keep separate?

Nora
That’s a good question. Because I’ve also been struggling with the same thoughts. 

cyclespeak
Have you found any answers?

Nora
On balance, I think these things should go together. Being an artist is me and Oniria is me. And painting is not something I do all the time. I paint when I feel inspired and everything aligns. But this takes time and, right now, I don’t have that much [laughs].


cyclespeak
Jannik, any hidden talents that I’m not aware of?

Jannik
That’s another very good question [smiles].

Nora
Many talents!!

cyclespeak
If Jannik is too modest, then maybe Nora should list them?

Jannik
It’s difficult to narrow it down because I like so many things. But actual talents? I did have this conversation once with a colleague and he said that my art is the way I approach and interact with people. Which I considered a very big compliment but maybe not a talent?

cyclespeak
Can I respectfully disagree? The ability to make a connection in a matter of seconds is a real gift. A talent that can mean so much to any individual in need of an empathetic ear.

Jannik
Well, for me, that’s good enough.

cyclespeak
Working together, is the line between the café and home blurred?

Jannik
In the beginning, when we’d just started, a little obsession grew that we had to be active on social media. I don’t feel that anymore and I think we’re both pretty aware when it’s time to disconnect.

Nora
We work a lot but we also have our days off and enjoy them as a couple or with friends. Some of these friends we made at Oniria so I suppose that’s a link with work but a nice one.

Jannik
There’s always a little part of life that’s related to work so you need to take control. And I have been guilty of prioritising others and not having enough energy to sustain myself. But this is the real challenge of being self-employed.


cyclespeak
Could Oniria exist elsewhere?

Jannik
It could work in different cities because it’s more about the experience than the physicality of the building. People need spaces where they can speak up, be open and authentic. It’s what we often say—coffee is the bridge.

Cyclespeak
And Girona?

Jannik
The setting is just perfect and both Nora and I feel this sense of connection. Very much our feet on the ground.

Nora
We both know that we have to be here. It’s our place.

cyclespeak
And as your place is a coffee shop, can I ask what you would order?

Nora
I always have a flat white. With oat milk.

Jannik
For me, it depends on the day but I’d rather go filter coffee if I can.

cyclespeak
And after a busy day, is it home cooked food or going out to eat?

Nora
We do both a lot [laughs]. We love cooking – very healthy usually – but we also love to eat out. The environment and energy of somewhere else and having people serve us is a welcome change from Oniria.

cyclespeak
Together as a team, you’ve worked so hard to create this special space. Can you describe each other in three words?

Nora
For me, I would say Jannik is brave. Very brave. And a perfectionist. And very empathetic.

cyclespeak
Jannik?

Jannik [looking at Nora]
Beautiful. Creative. And emotionally intense. Is that three or four? But definitely, always, beautiful.

Oniria Café / Nora

All photography with kind permission of The Service Course